![]() ![]() Years ago, Roger Conant proposed that temporalis could possibly be a relict population of L. This view was popularized by Kenneth Williams' landmark Systematics. elapsoides, with individuals to the north and west looking more like triangulum and individuals to the south more closely resembling elapsoides. There was a school of thought that temporalis is a huge hybrid zone of L. I've seen pics of temporalis with no neck collar, but a head pattern more closely resembling that of nominate triangulum. Matt J: In addition to what's been mentioned, there's a lot of variability in morphology. Go find a milksnake from southern Delmarva and compare those to the other ones you have found (in the piedmont?) in MD and you'll see what I'm talking about. triangulum which in my experience are more prone to be surface active and feeding heavily on rodents. Also temporalis utilize habitats more similarly to those of elapsoides (pinewoods) and even their habits are more similar to elapsoides with diets heavy on lizards and snakes, vs. triangulum in average length and the dorsal blotches extend from the dorsum to or near the ventral scales. There is usually a lot of red pigmentation in this area and on the head as well. temporalis lack the 'Y' shaped marking on the neck. Matt there are several characteristics that distinguish coastal plains milks from eastern milks, notably the morphology, natural history, and variation in coloration. Maybe a more accurate description would be temporalis with greater elapsoides influence. Ugh, I kind of understand what you mean by "true temporalis" now. Of all the poorly defined/delineated subspecies of milksnake, you’re gonna sink the one that supposedly bridges the gap between two of the most different forms? How does that make sense? It doesn’t.ītw why don't some of the more scholarly members weigh in on this for a change,it's always the same old people sounding off on this,gets kind of old. William’s book did nothing to make a case for sinking the subspecies, it’s a joke. The fact they were considered intergrades seems like just a huge mistake, I have no idea how/why it happened. Ne NC/se VA area is what I’ve always considered the population that probably would answer the most questions surrounding these snakes because that is really as far north as you’ll find elapsoides.ītw-Where did you say you go to look for coastals? Yes there are 3 seperate populations of temporalis(NJ MD/DE and lower VA/upper NC). They are dillute with the nominate’s genes enough so that it predictably and consistently is revealed in their color and pattern as you head north and/or west in south jersey I’m talking about seeing a difference between snakes found 2-3 miles apart. Heavencloud-Let me be clearer-I’m talking about temporalis in it’s purest form. *EDIT : this was originally posted under the 'your most inspiring herp' thread hence the list above. Really though it's too hard to narrow down to one.Right up there with coastals i'd place EDB's,cerberus,horridus,hyla andersonii,indigoes,pines,simus,mole kings,gopher frogs.the list goes on. It's actually embarrassing that i've STILL never found a true temporalis in my home state,which i consider the epicenter of the defunct form(I belive the type specimen was from DE though). Heck for that matter that just may be my most inspiring herp,at least locally-the true coastal plain milksnake.my ongoing search for 'true' coastals from my home state of maryland(we all know NJ ones kindasorta don't count,lol) has led me on so many trips afield,of course finding other cool 'bycatch' species along the way. This reminds me of a couple of temporalis I heard about one reportedly in an old pepsi bottle another found in a discarded potato chip bag. Bobassetto wrote:the king was in a pile of tin cans.and some guy actually brought him to a sensitive area to collect. ![]()
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